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<jsnell> | blech. after this, get-mutex will need to be changed too, to unconditionally call %lutex-lock, instead of trying to take the fast path with %instance-set-conditional | 00:01:05 |
| <slyrus> | bummer... | 00:01:16 |
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| <jsnell> | and the lutex condition-wait should then be something like (let ((old-value (mutex-value mutex)) (%lutex-wait ...) (setf (mutex-value mutex) old-value))), to ensure that the mutex-value slot is consistent with cond_wait releasing/acquiring the lock | 00:08:33 |
| adeht | Entered. | 00:08:52 |
| * | jsnell is obviously muddling this. bedtime | 00:10:11 |
| <slyrus> | ok, thanks jsnell. I'll pester you about it tomorrow, I'm sure. | 00:10:51 |
| <jsnell> | slyrus: can you send me a diff of what you come up with, even if it's not yet in a committable state? I could have a look at this tomorrow | 00:10:54 |
| <slyrus> | will do | 00:11:06 |
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| <xanavim> | odd, I have to compile my asdf package twice for it to "exist".. I must be doing something wrong | 00:15:24 |
| <tritcheyMini> | slyrus: is there something you would like for me to look at, or should I wait? Sounds like there is a lot of stuff in flux right now. | 00:16:02 |
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| <slyrus> | you could verify that what's in CVS builds, runs and doesn't panic, but it won't pass all the tests yet. | 00:16:31 |
| * | tritcheyMini built - now running tests | 00:17:00 |
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| <housel> | is there anyplace (other than CLOCC anoncvs) to download f2cl? | 01:06:16 |
| <sellout-42> | It's included in Maxima too, no? (I'm not positive) | 01:12:05 |
| <housel> | I don't think so, but it gets used to construct some of the Maxima source files | 01:13:15 |
| deego | Quit with message (Remote closed the connection). | 01:13:21 |
| <housel> | (AFAICT) | 01:13:32 |
| <sellout-42> | Yeah, I remember that, but couldn't remember if it was included. | 01:13:49 |
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| <heath> | Do you guys like your job? | 01:19:29 |
| khisanth_ | Changed name to Khisanth. | 01:19:41 |
| <camdez> | LOL. No. | 01:19:42 |
| Tialko | Quit with message (Nick collision from services.). | 01:20:30 |
| <heath> | Anyone else? | 01:20:47 |
| <brinkost> | Yes. | 01:21:48 |
| Tialko_ | Changed name to Tialko. | 01:21:59 |
| <heath> | brinkost: What do you do? | 01:22:25 |
| <sellout-42> | heath: Yeah, it's mostly a lot of fun. | 01:22:48 |
| <heath> | sellout-42: What do you do? | 01:23:03 |
| <nyef> | "It's not that I don't love my job... It's that I don't really -have- a job..." | 01:23:12 |
| <sellout-42> | machine learning and data mining at Amazon. | 01:23:50 |
| <sellout-42> | (in CL) | 01:23:54 |
| <heath> | sellout-42: Is there any way that I could get a similar position there? | 01:24:26 |
| <slyrus> | they don't need any more help selling stuff to me, thank you. | 01:27:03 |
| <slyrus> | I buy quite enough as it is | 01:27:11 |
| <sellout-42> | You could send me a resume ... but there isn't a _huge_ chance you'll find your way on a CL team (since there's only like 1.5), however there are also teams using Erlang and other languages other than C++, Java, and Perl. | 01:27:14 |
| <heath> | sellout-42: Ok, let me see if I can find one of my old resumes. | 01:27:59 |
| <xanavim> | heath: no, use your new one! | 01:30:14 |
| <xanavim> | hehe | 01:30:24 |
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| <brinkost> | heath: I guess you could call me an entrepreneur. Until my money runs out -- you'll then call me "waiter". | 01:35:00 |
| <xanavim> | I used to be an entrepreneur, then I had children/got married. Now you can calle me an "employee" | 01:36:01 |
| <brinkost> | i've got a few years before I get to that stage. | 01:36:51 |
| zbir` | Quit with message (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). | 01:38:13 |
| <xanavim> | I've got a few years to get back out of that stage (: | 01:41:04 |
| <xanavim> | the employee part | 01:41:15 |
| <brinkost> | Not the 'being a father'' part. | 01:41:56 |
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| wchogg | Entered. | 01:45:35 |
| <xanavim> | no, that part's fun (: | 01:46:00 |
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| * | drewc loves his work, but hates his job. | 01:51:22 |
| <heath> | drewc: How is that/ | 01:51:48 |
| <heath> | ? | 01:51:50 |
| <drewc> | just as an example, it's 35C today, and i'd prefer to be at the damn beach than here working. | 01:52:03 |
| <drewc> | that said, i get to write CL code for living, which i love doing. | 01:52:16 |
| <drewc> | i just hate _having_ to do it. | 01:52:30 |
| <xanavim> | yeah, but getting sand in your laptop and glare really sucks | 01:52:31 |
| <heath> | drewc: I wish I could write CL code for a living. | 01:52:40 |
| <brinkost> | drewc: where are you? | 01:52:51 |
| <drewc> | xanavim: i've found it impossible to work at the beach .. too much beer around. | 01:52:55 |
| <drewc> | brinkost: Vancouver, BC | 01:53:04 |
| <nyef> | heath: Don't wish. Make arrangements. | 01:53:08 |
| <heath> | nyef: I'm having trouble doing so. Any advice? | 01:53:23 |
| <drewc> | heath: there is a trick to that. Just refuse to do anything else. | 01:53:25 |
| <xanavim> | heath: I got my first real job because people liked a game I wrote a long, long time ago (: | 01:53:38 |
| <brinkost> | drewc: Shouldn't it be 10C and raining, not 35 and sunny? | 01:53:40 |
| <drewc> | heath: since you have to eat and pay rent, you'll find a way to make it work. | 01:53:44 |
| <drewc> | brinkost: not between may and october :) | 01:53:58 |
| <heath> | drewc: :) | 01:54:03 |
| <nyef> | brinkost: No, 10C and raining is northeastern US right now. | 01:54:04 |
| <drewc> | brinkost: you are describing Xmas day though :) | 01:54:30 |
| <drewc> | (which ain't so bad) | 01:54:40 |
| <drewc> | heath i'm entirely serious .. that's what i did :) | 01:55:02 |
| <heath> | drewc: I have to honestly say, then, that I think you are extremely lucky. | 01:55:30 |
| * | xanavim once worked 10 hours a day for eight months on a game which made $0.00 | 01:55:40 |
| <heath> | Also, I will guess that you didn't have a wife to support? | 01:55:49 |
| <drewc> | heath: just incredibly stubborn really. | 01:55:49 |
| <heath> | drewc: But that is ballsey. | 01:56:07 |
| <drewc> | heath : she supports herself :) | 01:56:13 |
| <heath> | s/is/is still/ | 01:56:16 |
| <heath> | ah. | 01:56:20 |
| <heath> | Well, it is time for me to go home now. | 01:56:56 |
| <drewc> | heath: yeah, shiney n brass :) | 01:57:02 |
| <brinkost> | heath: I hear that the world is in need of more Digg clones, and CL is good for that. | 01:57:04 |
| <heath> | I hope, someday, that I will find a job that I enjoy. Where I can do real work. | 01:57:30 |
| <xanavim> | it is? like topix.net and del.icio.us? | 01:57:41 |
| * | sellout-42 started at Amazon doing C++ and just started writing in CL ... now it's sanctioned. | 01:57:42 |
| <sellout-42> | I just kept it quiet for a while, and did things. Eventually, my manager was like "you should really be telling people about this" | 01:58:16 |
| <heath> | sellout-42: Wow. | 01:58:25 |
| <heath> | Amazon is in washington, right? | 01:58:42 |
| <drewc> | sellout-42: ahh .. the 'don't ask, just do' approach! | 01:58:43 |
| <sellout-42> | drewc: I used to work across the street from Kits Beach. Spending lunch there every day was pretty awesome. | 01:58:48 |
| <sellout-42> | heath: Yeah | 01:58:58 |
| <drewc> | sellout-42: No doubt :). I'm on commercial dr, but for beachin prefer wreck :) | 01:59:21 |
| <heath> | sellout-42: Does my resume indicate that it would be possible for me to obtain employment there? | 01:59:26 |
|
<sellout-42> | heath: I haven't gone over it yet. | 02:00:25 |
| <heath> | sellout-42: Ok, well let me n | 02:00:37 |
| <heath> | know. | 02:00:40 |
| <sellout-42> | heath: There are a lot of out-of-college hires here. | 02:00:52 |
| <heath> | Thanks for taking a look. I really appreciate it. | 02:00:57 |
| <sellout-42> | np, heading home | 02:01:23 |
| <heath> | sellout-42: Ah, well if gives me any extra pull, I did pass the ESRI interview process. | 02:01:53 |
| <drewc> | ok, fsck this.. a couple hours at the beach never hurt anybody productivity .. right? | 02:02:00 |
| <xanavim> | drewc: I get more work done hacking in the middle of the night (: | 02:02:22 |
| <drewc> | xanavim: sold! | 02:02:31 |
| <heath> | Time for me to go home too. See you tomorrow guys. | 02:02:38 |
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| <drewc> | it's too hot to get any work done anyways .. err .. the dog at my laptop ... | 02:03:16 |
| <drewc> | ate* | 02:03:21 |
| <nyef> | drewc: Have fun at the beach. | 02:03:28 |
| <drewc> | nyef: i'll probably just end up feeling guilt over not coding and end up back here in a few hours.. | 02:04:04 |
| <drewc> | but those few hours should be grand! | 02:04:12 |
| <nyef> | Bah. You're taking a break. There's no reason to feel guilty. | 02:04:30 |
| <drewc> | nyef: that's my story and i'm sticking to it :) | 02:05:12 |
| <brinkost> | crazy westerners and their weather and "beaches". | 02:05:16 |
| <brinkost> | :) | 02:06:06 |
| <drewc> | brinkost: i'm an eastern expat, makes it doubley hard to resist the tempetation. | 02:06:24 |
| <nyef> | I'm tempted to head out in that direction myself... | 02:06:45 |
| <brinkost> | drewc: eastern as in Canada? | 02:07:34 |
| <brinkost> | eastern Canada? | 02:07:41 |
| <drewc> | brinkost: ayuh, halifax born, toronto raised | 02:07:54 |
| <brinkost> | At that rate you'll retire in Japan. | 02:08:26 |
| MisterC | Entered. | 02:08:35 |
| <brinkost> | Or Vancouver Island. | 02:08:41 |
| xanavim | Quit with message ("time to catch a train"). | 02:09:09 |
| <drewc> | brinkost: i figure the Island is as far as anybody with european ancestry can reasonably go .. end of the world really. | 02:09:16 |
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| * | drewc is outta here! | 02:10:41 |
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| <Riastradh> | Does anyone here use M-r in Emacs as `move-to-window-line'? (This is the default binding; paredit-mode binds M-r to `paredit-raise-sexp' instead.) | 02:52:10 |
| <kreuter> | nope. | 02:52:47 |
| <nyef> | Not I. | 02:53:21 |
| <Riastradh> | Also, does anyone here use C-M-p and C-M-n as `backward-list' and `forward-list'? (paredit-mode, again, rebinds them, to `backward-down-list' and `up-list', respectively.) | 02:54:41 |
| zbir` | Entered. | 02:55:06 |
| <nyef> | I usually use C-M-leftarrow and C-M-rightarrow. | 02:55:17 |
| <Riastradh> | I suppose you don't use paredit, then? | 02:56:11 |
| <nyef> | No, I don't. | 02:56:23 |
| <kreuter> | I only use C-M-a/b/e/f. | 02:56:29 |
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| <Riastradh> | I use all those and C-M-p & C-M-n, but the latter under paredit, so they effect upward and downward motion, not just forward and backward. | 02:57:06 |
| <kreuter> | I think your functions are probably more useful than backward-list and forward-list. | 02:57:45 |
| <kreuter> | (and I do use paredit, just not those bindings) | 02:58:02 |
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| <rll> | how to convert string to an integer? | 03:02:14 |
| <Riastradh> | clhs parse-integer | 03:02:18 |
| <specbot> | http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/f_parse_.htm | 03:02:18 |
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| * | sellout uses paredit, but isn't familiar enough with all the bindings :/ | 03:11:41 |
| <Riastradh> | C-h m! | 03:11:55 |
| <kreuter> | hey, that's not a paredit binding :) | 03:12:07 |
| <Riastradh> | Also, equivalently, <http://mumble.net/~campbell/emacs/paredit.html>. | 03:12:25 |
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| interferon | Entered. | 03:13:48 |
| <Riastradh> | Does anyone here use M-<left> or M-<right> as backward-word and forward-word? (paredit-mode rebinds them to slurpage and barfage commands; likewise C-M-<left> and C-M-<right>, which slurp and barf in the other direction.) | 03:16:08 |
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| <kreuter> | not I. (am I a bad reference point?) | 03:17:18 |
| <Riastradh> | Anyone is a good reference point. | 03:17:49 |
| <Riastradh> | I'm trying to poll a diverse body of Lisp hackers regarding aspects of paredit's design. | 03:18:17 |
| <kreuter> | you'd be surprised. my coworker, who strictly speaking uses emacs all day, got confused recently when I told to do something involving C-p. | 03:18:52 |
| <kreuter> | ... when I told her to do something... | 03:19:07 |
| <kreuter> | the only thing I can think of that I don't know how to do in paredit is to wrap a sequence of buffer positions in double quotes. I often forget to type an opening doublequote. | 03:20:52 |
| <Riastradh> | M-" | 03:21:19 |
| bmp | Entered. | 03:21:57 |
| <kreuter> | um, that doesn't seem to do what I meant. | 03:22:29 |
| Z4rd0Z | Quit with message (). | 03:23:31 |
| <kreuter> | after I type some characters that I meant to be a string, putting double quotes around requires C-q ", I think. | 03:25:02 |
| <Riastradh> | Yes. | 03:25:15 |
| <Riastradh> | But you can also put the point before them and type M-". | 03:25:22 |
| <kreuter> | that seems to insert two double quotes and a space. am I using an old version? | 03:25:56 |
| <Riastradh> | Possibly. What version are you using? | 03:26:06 |
| <Riastradh> | C-h v paredit-version | 03:26:09 |
| <kreuter> | 17 | 03:26:17 |
| <Riastradh> | OK. I think I added that functionality recently. | 03:26:24 |
| <Riastradh> | ...as in, version 18 or 19. | 03:26:27 |
| <interferon> | Riastradh, what's the latest version number? | 03:26:34 |
| <kreuter> | man, where've I been? | 03:26:37 |
| <Riastradh> | 19 is the latest release; 20 is the latest beta. | 03:26:45 |
| <interferon> | oh dear, i'm behind | 03:26:53 |
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| <kreuter> | Riastradh: wow, that's fantastic. | 03:28:37 |
| <kreuter> | thank you. | 03:28:52 |
| <sellout> | Riastradh: Do you have a paredit for Climacs, is that functionality already included, or is Climacs not far enough along to support it? | 03:30:18 |
| <Riastradh> | sellout, ask me again after this weekend. | 03:30:28 |
| <sellout> | Riastradh: Awesome. | 03:30:47 |
| <Zhivago> | sellout: check the latest cvs to see if make-load-form works for you | 03:32:45 |
| <Riastradh> | Does anyone here disagree with any of my assessments in <http://mumble.net/~campbell/tmp/rms-paredit-mail>? | 03:33:25 |
| <sellout> | Zhivago: I checked it out before I left work, but didn't try using it yet. | 03:33:33 |
| <sellout> | Ran into another issue with CFFI-Grovel ... it had happened to me before, but then disappeared (don't know how). It resurfaced today. | 03:35:12 |
| <Zhivago> | sellout: he seems to have cleverly fixed my error by accident :) | 03:35:19 |
| <sellout> | Zhivago: Oh, all of Juanjo's rearrangements? | 03:35:34 |
| <sellout> | Cool. | 03:35:37 |
| <kreuter> | Riastradh: I'd forgotten that C-M-f signals an error outside paredit. paredit is right on this point, IMO. | 03:37:03 |
| * | sellout is just going to convert CFFI-Grovel to use logical pathnames ... all this subseq to remove file extensions, etc. is just too error prone. | 03:40:23 |
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| * | interferon agrees with kreuter | 03:40:51 |
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| <luis> | hmm.. the Google Web Toolkit makes me think Google isn't that smart :D | 04:35:27 |
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| <hefner> | what is the Google Web Toolkit? | 04:54:41 |
| hikozaemon | Entered. | 04:55:03 |
| <luis> | A Java to Javascript/HTML compiler, among other stuff. | 04:55:08 |
| Z4rd0Z | Entered. | 04:55:15 |
| <luis> | Just, erm, google it. | 04:55:18 |
| <hefner> | I did. | 04:55:26 |
| <luis> | :-) | 04:55:33 |
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| <bdowning> | Ok, I give up. Googling for "google web toolkit" gets one hit, and unquoted versions nothing coherent. URL please? | 05:02:40 |
| <bdowning> | oh | 05:03:04 |
| <bdowning> | nevermind, it's in the sponsored links, but not a real result. Bizzare. | 05:03:18 |
| interferon | Quit with message ("ERC Version 5.1.2 (CVS) $Revision: 1.813 $ (IRC client for Emacs)"). | 05:03:29 |
| * | bdowning can never spell "bizarre." | 05:04:16 |
| <bdowning> | I like the line, "for developers who don't speak browser quirks as a second language," though. | 05:05:35 |
| <bdowning> | http://angryflower.com/webshi.html | 05:05:39 |
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| <bdowning> | "distributed only as object code." Lame. | 05:08:33 |
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| <zu22> | ack have you guys read this, they denigrate Emacs and Lisp :( http://www.oreillynet.com/mac/blog...s_est_mort_vive_le_textmat_1.html | 05:11:39 |
| <bdowning> | Given the source I'm not at all surprised. | 05:12:06 |
| <hefner> | anyone else think google these days is a spam-clogged, near useless mess? | 05:13:00 |
| <bdowning> | Sort of, but is their anything better? | 05:13:20 |
| pinupgeek | Entered. | 05:13:30 |
| <Zhivago> | well denigrating emacs and elisp is probably a good thing | 05:13:39 |
| <nyef> | It's coming in from a site associated with oreilly, of -course- it's not going to have a pro-lisp bias. | 05:15:29 |
| <hefner> | bdowning: doesn't seem to be, but it doesn't seem likely to improve, because the solutions are not politically correct | 05:15:35 |
| lemonodor_ | Quit with message ("The computer fell asleep"). | 05:16:44 |
| <bdowning> | hefner: I do think there must be some heuristic that could find and demote all of the linkfarm sites I usually wind up seeing. They all tend to look pretty similar. Perhaps this isn't politically correct, though. | 05:20:06 |
| <hefner> | in addition to that, I'd like the ability to filter anything that looks like an online store. | 05:21:29 |
| Adamant | Entered. | 05:21:58 |
| * | nyef filters anything that looks like the waking world. | 05:22:00 |
| <nyef> | G'night all. | 05:22:02 |
| annesh | Entered. | 05:22:05 |
| <hefner> | night. | 05:22:13 |
| Adamant | Quit with message (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). | 05:22:26 |
| <bdowning> | Use the Google Web Toolkit<tm> to build a site with a Bayesian filter on search results and start training. :) | 05:22:33 |
| <bdowning> | (feature selection may well have to be different than just words to be successful though) | 05:23:26 |
| <tessier_> | Is it true that functional programming languages do not use a stack but instead use only a heap? | 05:28:29 |
| Adamant | Entered. | 05:29:10 |
| <Zhivago> | no | 05:30:03 |
| <sellout> | As Guy Steele said: "Intuitively, function calls do not "push control stack"; instead, it is argument evaluation which pushes control stack." | 05:30:23 |
| <Zhivago> | that is an implementation issue, and that's mostly associated with unconstrained continuations | 05:30:26 |
| <sellout> | Man, is that guy quotable or what? | 05:30:34 |
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| <zu22> | heh | 05:55:56 |
| cake_ | Entered. | 05:58:08 |
| <cake_> | when printing a string using (princ "foo"), how do I create a linebreak, like "foo (linebreak) bar" ? | 05:58:48 |
| <pjb> | (terpri) | 05:59:18 |
| <Zhivago> | (terpri) might be useful, otherwise see format | 05:59:20 |
| <hefner> | or, "foo | 05:59:36 |
| <hefner> | bar" | 05:59:37 |
| <pjb> | Also, you can insert a newline inside the string; (princ "first line | 05:59:42 |
| <pjb> | second line") | 05:59:43 |
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aundro | Quit with message (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). | 06:00:55 |
| <cake_> | pjb: well hmm, im kind of writing a small language in lisp, and i want the user to be abel to print text like (cout "my string") =), and I delegate that call to princ, passing the string... But there are no like \n that I can use? | 06:02:33 |
| <pjb> | cake_: No, lisp is powerfull, it can handle a new line in strings, contrarily to C who needs things like \n. | 06:04:00 |
| <cake_> | =) | 06:04:17 |
| <bdowning> | Also see cl-interpol. | 06:05:05 |
| <cake_> | yeah, I guess your right, but I think the code gets ugly if there are like "foo | 06:05:11 |
| <cake_> | bar | 06:05:11 |
| <cake_> | plx" in it, oh well... | 06:05:11 |
| <bdowning> | minion: tell cake_ about cl-interpol | 06:05:16 |
| <minion> | cake_: please see cl-interpol: CL-INTERPOL is a text processing library. http://www.cliki.net/cl-interpol | 06:05:17 |
| <pjb> | Note that the lisp reader still handle \ as an escape: "a dblquote: \" here, a backslash there: \\ ; just an n here: \n " | 06:05:27 |
| mornfall|mx | Quit with message ("bed"). | 06:05:34 |
| <pjb> | So you could use cl-interpol or write your own, substituting \n by newline, but you'd have to write: "line one \\n line two" | 06:06:18 |
| <cake_> | kk. thanks | 06:07:29 |
| <spiaggia> | pjb: in English, if you "replace a by b", then you also "substitute b for a", but you don't "substitute a by b" | 06:08:24 |
| <pjb> | I need the freedom given by lisp keywords... | 06:09:52 |
| <spiaggia> | heh | 06:10:00 |
| <dankna> | I've seen that usage, actually, but it's rare | 06:13:15 |
| cake_ | Left. | 06:15:20 |
| <spiaggia> | sure, anyone is free to use whatever phrase structure he or she desires. I wasn't trying to be prescriptive, just trying to indicate what most educated native speakers of English would prefer. | 06:15:31 |
| <Zhivago> | 'with' is probably more common and flexible :) | 06:18:41 |
| <spiaggia> | that's not all there is to it. When you use "substitute" you have to reverse the order. | 06:19:14 |
| <Riastradh> | `Substitute X for Y' is the only phrase structure that I see consistently used. | 06:19:17 |
| <Riastradh> | ...and the only one that makes sense to me. | 06:19:26 |
| <Riastradh> | The story is a bit different with `replace.' | 06:20:22 |
| mkennedy | Entered. | 06:27:00 |
| drewc | Quit with message (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). | 06:29:15 |
| <dankna> | yeah. grammar is complex but beautiful. | 06:31:28 |
| splittist | Entered. | 06:32:52 |
| <splittist> | morn | 06:32:58 |
| <slyrus> | mornin JQS | 06:33:08 |
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| redblue | Entered. | 06:48:13 |
| <mvilleneuve> | morning | 06:59:30 |
| <splittist> | morning | 06:59:57 |
|
<Riastradh> | Hmmm, I suppose two in the morning counts as `morning'...morning! | 07:01:16 |
| <splittist> | Riastradh: very early morning to you! | 07:01:38 |
| <slyrus> | Riastradh: what was in the draft email from earlier? doesn't seem to be there any more. | 07:01:53 |
| <Riastradh> | slyrus, oh, I already sent it. | 07:05:29 |
| <slyrus> | ok | 07:05:36 |
| billc | Quit with message (Remote closed the connection). | 07:05:51 |
| <Riastradh> | I've just put what I sent back up there. | 07:06:25 |
| dash_ | Entered. | 07:10:21 |
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| * | splittist is once again reminded that he uses a fraction of the power of paredit | 07:12:20 |
| * | pjb is once again reminded that he uses a fraction of the power of his brains, and would like to know how to put the rest of his brains to use... | 07:16:00 |
| <splittist> | mmmm, braaaaaaains! | 07:18:45 |
| rll | Quit with message (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). | 07:18:51 |
| <pjb> | That would be an explanation. The remaining 90% are not to be used, but to be eaten. | 07:19:57 |
| <splittist> | We're just waiting for the interstellar parasite that will use us a food-source to arrive. I hear their asteroid has been delayed... | 07:22:22 |
| <xanavim> | no, they were here already. you missed them | 07:22:58 |
| <zu22> | Welcome mvilleneuve to this LISPdom of plenty. | 07:23:12 |
| <pjb> | Why do you think we're getting so fat? | 07:23:21 |
| <zu22> | pjb: i think it's possible to get fat eating at Subway contrary to those commercials with Jared :P | 07:23:48 |
| <xanavim> | why do you think I lost ten pounds this week? | 07:23:58 |
| <Riastradh> | splittist, it's called toxoplasmosis, and cats use it to their advantage! | 07:24:02 |
| <zu22> | Riastradh: is that why cats can eat almost anything and not become sick? | 07:24:30 |
| <Riastradh> | zu22, no, it's why humans are so fond of cats. | 07:24:49 |
| <zu22> | oh | 07:25:05 |
| <Riastradh> | Toxoplasmosis is a brain parasite that lives in cats' intestinal tracts and attracts other organisms to cats. | 07:25:09 |
| <Riastradh> | s/lives/reproduces/1 | 07:25:15 |
| <Riastradh> | Or something like that. | 07:25:20 |
| <zu22> | gross | 07:25:40 |
| <Riastradh> | Hey, I'm perfectly OK being subservient to feline tyrants. | 07:26:26 |
| KingNato | Quit with message (). | 07:27:11 |
| <zu22> | Riastradh: maybe that is why ancient Egyptians worshipped cats | 07:27:29 |
| <slyrus> | Cats. Cats are nice. | 07:27:48 |
| <Zhivago> | probably too much sun | 07:27:56 |
| <zu22> | :P | 07:28:24 |
| <hefner> | perhaps the great pyramids play some role in the toxoplasmosis life cycle | 07:28:37 |
| <splittist> | they attract the asteroids! | 07:28:53 |
| <zu22> | someone call Art Bell at Coast-to-Coast haha! | 07:29:21 |
| <pjb> | http://video.google.com/videosearch?q=cat | 07:31:44 |
| <bdowning> | http://video.google.com/videosearch?q=sleepy+kitten | 07:33:01 |
| <splittist> | http://video.google.com/videosearch?q=velvet+elvis | 07:34:24 |
| dnm | Entered. | 07:35:47 |
| drewc | Entered. | 07:36:07 |
| <bdowning> | I'd sell that for $590,000. | 07:36:10 |
| <mvilleneuve> | or even cheaper | 07:39:23 |
| <bdowning> | I like how Elvis has a much bigger halo than Jesus though. | 07:39:58 |
| <splittist> | The batteries are newer | 07:42:38 |
| * | bdowning dies. | 07:43:20 |
| <bdowning> | No halo, though. :( | 07:43:46 |
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| Xof | Entered. | 07:45:24 |
| <xanavim> | meow | 07:45:39 |
| Soulman | Entered. | 07:47:03 |
| <michaelw> | Riastradh: I am using M-<Left> and M-<Right> for motion, I found it wrong to have cursor keys modify text. incidentally, I have bound M-<Up> and M-<Down> as well to motion commands. | 07:47:06 |
| jewel | Entered. | 07:47:31 |
| <Riastradh> | michaelw, OK. Do you use slurpage and barfage commands at all? | 07:47:42 |
| ink|work` | Entered. | 07:49:46 |
| ink|work | Quit with message (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). | 07:49:47 |
| <michaelw> | yes, i am using a mix between my C-SPC method and slurpage and barfage, but the latter one increasingly more lately | 07:50:29 |
| <Riastradh> | What keys do you slurp and barf with? | 07:51:07 |
| <michaelw> | C-) and C-} | 07:52:08 |
| <Riastradh> | OK, so you never run paredit under Emacs in a terminal? | 07:52:46 |
| <michaelw> | nope, only time when i run emacs in a terminal is inside screen when writing mails from remote under hostile conditions | 07:53:32 |
| <Riastradh> | OK. | 07:53:48 |
| <Riastradh> | C-) and C-} can't be sent in terminals, so someone suggested the modified arrow keys as substitutes. | 07:54:13 |
| <Riastradh> | I couldn't think of better alternatives, and I'm personally OK with the modified arrow keys. | 07:54:31 |
| <michaelw> | well, i can continue rebinding them, so no problem with me | 07:54:59 |
| <jamesjb> | haha, i've never heard of the slurp and barf bindings, but something tells me they are great | 07:55:00 |
| AWizzArd | Entered. | 07:55:54 |
| <AWizzArd> | Moin | 07:55:57 |
| <xanavim> | moin | 07:59:08 |
|
KingNato | Entered. | 08:03:30 |
| splittist | Quit with message ("my bed has arrived!"). | 08:04:25 |
| beach | Entered. | 08:06:39 |
| <beach> | good evening | 08:06:48 |
| <slyrus> | hey beach | 08:06:59 |
| <slyrus> | almost time for bed here | 08:07:03 |
| anonfunc | Entered. | 08:07:32 |
| <beach> | I believe it is way past my bedtime there | 08:07:33 |
| <slyrus> | beach: I think I mentioned this before, but it bears repeating... the zuccardi Q tempranilllo from argentina rocks | 08:07:55 |
| <beach> | good to know. I have had little experience with wine from Argentina. | 08:08:34 |
| <AWizzArd> | good morning beach | 08:09:21 |
| <beach> | AWizzArd: what's up? | 08:09:55 |
| <AWizzArd> | How late is it over there? A few mins after 9am here in .de | 08:09:57 |
| <beach> | AWizzArd: 19:10 or so | 08:10:27 |
| <AWizzArd> | and thats past badtime? :) | 08:11:04 |
| <mvilleneuve> | beach: hello! | 08:11:06 |
| <beach> | AWizzArd: no, no. Where slyrus is, it is past *my* bedtime. | 08:11:40 |
| <beach> | mvilleneuve: hello. Have you read the CLIM spec yet? :) | 08:11:58 |
| <tokenrove> | any lisp hackers here in beijing? | 08:12:52 |
| <mvilleneuve> | beach: heh :) no, so far I've only reached chapter 4 of LispWorks' user's guide | 08:12:54 |
| <beach> | that's a good start, I guess. What is in that chapter? | 08:13:24 |
| <mvilleneuve> | beach: playing with Climacs or another CLIM app might be a more efficient way to learn, I'll have to try | 08:13:39 |
| <mvilleneuve> | text styles | 08:13:51 |
| <beach> | ah | 08:14:00 |
| <slyrus> | that springtail thing looks kinda neat | 08:14:01 |
| Yuuhi | Entered. | 08:14:06 |
| <slyrus> | speaking of clim apps | 08:14:07 |
| <beach> | "springtail"? | 08:14:19 |
| <beach> | mvilleneuve: it might be. | 08:14:34 |
| <therp> | mvilleneuve: you might want to have a look at the "Guided Tour" doc in mcclim-repo/Doc/Guided-Tour/ | 08:14:35 |
| <slyrus> | beach: http://www.zamazal.org/software/springtail/ | 08:14:44 |
| <mvilleneuve> | therp: thanks, I'll take a look | 08:15:10 |
| <beach> | slyrus: I'll have a look after dinner. BBL. | 08:15:28 |
| <therp> | mvilleneuve: a simple "make" in that dir should give you a dvi file, given you have latex installed | 08:15:31 |
| <mvilleneuve> | therp: hm. I'm getting a "LaTeX Error: File `listings.sty' not found."... any idea about what I'm missing? | 08:15:58 |
| <therp> | mvilleneuve: listings.sty should be part of any bigger tex distro. tetex? | 08:16:26 |
| <mvilleneuve> | (it's been ages since I last used LaTeX...) | 08:16:36 |
| <mvilleneuve> | upgrading tetex... | 08:17:42 |
| <michaelw> | listings.sty is in tetex-extra on debian, fwiw | 08:18:36 |
| <mvilleneuve> | michaelw: thanks | 08:18:55 |
| <mvilleneuve> | it worked :) | 08:20:22 |
| xanavim | Quit with message ("the quantum mechanic hits! your position is uncertain"). | 08:21:11 |
| jewel | Quit with message (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). | 08:21:38 |
| <mega1> | nfroyd: around? | 08:22:33 |
| <slyrus> | gnight folks | 08:28:29 |
| n_i_c_o | Entered. | 08:28:58 |
| shawn | Entered. | 08:30:46 |
| Gavrila | Entered. | 08:31:28 |
| * | mvilleneuve secretly printed out the CLIM Guided Tour using the company printer, without even feeling guilty... | 08:33:04 |
| <pjb> | Perhaps a smart move would have been to print a second copy and to "forget" it near the printer... | 08:35:21 |
| <mvilleneuve> | heh :) | 08:35:31 |
| <AWizzArd> | hi pjb | 08:35:35 |
| <pjb> | Hi! | 08:35:48 |
| <zu22> | oh nice! i want one of those ION keyboards with the blue light up keys you can use in the dark, www.myionproducts.com just $20 | 08:38:31 |
| <mvilleneuve> | zu22: why would you need to see the keys? | 08:40:09 |
| <therp> | pjb: maybe we could even start to forget copies of CLIM guided tour/any other lisp tutorial in public places, i.e. trains, subways, or waiting halls. | 08:42:18 |
| <antifuchs> | the glory days of hunt and peck are now officially over | 08:42:31 |
| <antifuchs> | it's like using dogs to hunt foxes. bah. | 08:43:16 |
| <itze> | good morning | 08:45:05 |
| <therp> | antifuchs: what about a bit of activism, leaf letters printed with the Y combinator and a set of cool macros, and then distribute them in the first term students' course 'introduction to programming'? :) | 08:45:22 |
| <antifuchs> | heh | 08:45:57 |
| <therp> | antifuchs: maybe we can even recruit people like those religious zealots (the wachturm people) standing at the train stations to advertise lisp | 08:46:22 |
| <antifuchs> | mwaha | 08:46:33 |
| <therp> | hey that's the key idea for success, let's make lisp a religion. | 08:46:37 |
| <antifuchs> | I like that idea | 08:46:39 |
| <antifuchs> | I guess somebody already did | 08:47:08 |
| <itze> | don't trust any religion | 08:47:22 |
| <zu22> | mvilleneuve: i like the glow, it has a calming effect :P | 08:48:45 |
| <zu22> | antifuchs: heh | 08:49:01 |
| <hefner> | visible keys are handy if you're playing a game online and need to type a quick burst of smack-talk | 08:53:24 |
| <pjb> | A lisp religion? You're coming late. First was the Verb. And what are our little lisp functions, if not verbs? | 08:53:31 |
| <mvilleneuve> | let's send lispers out in the streets to offer "personality tests" to java programmers | 08:55:48 |
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| archaelus | Entered. | 08:59:45 |
| <zu22> | mvilleneuve: did you see http://www.flownet.com/gat/papers/lisp-java.pdf | 08:59:47 |
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| <Zhivago> | pjb: declarations? | 09:05:32 |
| <dnm> | Hey Zhivago | 09:06:28 |
| <Zhivago> | hello dnm | 09:06:41 |
| zu22 | Quit with message (). | 09:08:25 |
| <dnm> | Zhivago: How goes it? Haven't talked to you in a while. | 09:10:18 |
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| <xan> | hi | 10:14:13 |
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| <mvilleneuve> | the common-lisp.net project page for mel-base mentions a CLIM-based mail reader, does anyone know where to find it? | 10:26:53 |
| Zulan_ | Changed name to ThomasIl. | 10:30:05 |
| <hefner> | hmm, it seems to haev vanished | 10:30:24 |
| <hefner> | I had it running a year or two ago, but I've no idea where I got it from | 10:30:44 |
| <hefner> | I've rewritten mcclim's XPM parser to run about 5x faster, but I bet I can squeeze some more out of it tomorrow.. | 10:33:13 |
| ths | Quit with message (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). | 10:36:59 |
| <waddletron2k> | If one existed that was suitable for everyday use that wasn't simply a toy, I'm sure it would have graced McCLIM Desktop by now, wouldn't it? | 10:37:46 |
| <waddletron2k> | erh, RE:mail client... sorry :-) | 10:40:55 |
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| <therp> | english lisp terminology question: (defvar dynvar nil) (defun bar () (let ((dynvar 'value)) (funcall somefun))) - is it nice to say "dynvar might only be referenced accessed by somefun and its successors (?) when invoked by bar"? | 10:58:39 |
| <therp> | or how would I express compactly | 10:59:16 |
| _101 | Entered. | 10:59:26 |
|
<timjr> | maybe "the extent of that binding of dynvar encompasses the call to somefun"? | 11:01:25 |
| <Riastradh> | DYNVAR will be bound to the symbol VALUE for the dynamic extent of SOMEFUN. | 11:01:41 |
| <Riastradh> | That is a true statement, but I'm not sure I understand exactly what you are trying to express and whether this expresses the same idea. | 11:02:00 |
| <timjr> | yeah, I like what Riastradh said. Dynamic extent is what you mean by "successors", I think. | 11:03:58 |
| <therp> | it's a bit more complicated, as I have a function to retrieve dynvar. like (defun get-dynvar () dynvar). it's the docstring of get-dynvar I'm trying to write. "Returns dynvar. Might only be called throughout the call to somefun by bar" | 11:04:08 |
| hikozaemon | Quit with message ("Leaving..."). | 11:04:14 |
| <therp> | throughout the dynamic extend of somefun when called by bar? | 11:04:35 |
| <segv> | Returns dynvar. Must be called within the dynamic extent of bar. | 11:04:35 |
| <therp> | that's the most clear I think, thanks all for the suggestions | 11:05:31 |
| <segv> | you colud also just define dynvar with (defvar dynvar) and then you'll get unbonud variable errors when the condition isn't met. | 11:06:12 |
| chris2 | Entered. | 11:06:28 |
| <therp> | segv: I guess I like that too. | 11:06:36 |
| <therp> | is there actually a way to create uninitialized lexical bindings? I recently recognized that (let (a) a) gives nil, but I supposed it would give me an unbound var error. | 11:07:45 |
| <segv> | the only problem is that if you want to add a docstring to dynvar you need to have a seperate (setf documentation) form | 11:07:58 |
| <segv> | therp: not portably (and event then it's not trivial) | 11:08:18 |
| <segv> | s/event/even/ | 11:08:23 |
| <pjb> | therp: there's no way. There could be hack with symbol macros... | 11:08:30 |
| <therp> | nah it's ok. I don't want to do it for now, but I was reading lisp in small pieces before I tried that, and they elaborate on just that issue and come up with (let (unbound-var) ..) as way to do it.. | 11:09:27 |
| <pjb> | therp: why do you want it anyways? | 11:09:29 |
| <segv> | if you don't mind the variable being special there's (progv '(x) '() ...) | 11:09:46 |
| <pjb> | You could write: (let ((a :unbound)) ... (if (eq a :unbound) ...)) | 11:09:53 |
| leeghoofd | Entered. | 11:09:59 |
| <therp> | I was just asking for curiosity | 11:10:04 |
| <leeghoofd> | hello, do you know if there is a package with more math functions, like normalcdf, inverse-normal etc? | 11:11:05 |
| <pjb> | leeghoofd: maxima perhaps? | 11:11:23 |
| <therp> | cl-mathstats by gary king? | 11:11:37 |
| <_101> | leeghoofd, also look around on cliki.net | 11:11:38 |
| <pjb> | http://www.cliki.net/Mathematics | 11:11:56 |
| <segv> | matlisp is definetly worth looking into | 11:12:23 |
| nikodemus | Entered. | 11:12:29 |
| <nikodemus> | good afternoon | 11:12:37 |
| <leeghoofd> | wow, that's a lot of info, many thanks, I will read that | 11:13:15 |
| <antifuchs> | hi nikodemus (: | 11:13:58 |
| <nikodemus> | back in vienna? | 11:14:15 |
| <antifuchs> | I am | 11:14:48 |
| <antifuchs |